Anish Trivedi
Popular RJ and CMD,
Banyan Tree
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| "Radio Stations can't have different day-parts for different audiences"
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 In our quest to understand Radio better, we were looking to chat up with someone who understands Radio, both from the programming and the business side. And preferably, first hand! Difficult choice, in the nascent stages of the medium. And then we chanced upon Anish Trivedi. Anish, earlier a top notch banker with Oppenheimer & Co, is now successfully running his five year old radio production company - Banyan Tree and also host a popular Breakfast Show on Mumbai's GO 92.5. He has been involved with radio for over 20 years, beginning with a show at USC's college station. He went on to host one of the first shows to air on India's privatised airwaves in 1993.
In his Cuff Parade office, Amit Agnihotri of exchange4media discussed about the content dynamics of radio business, and if he believes that in the maxim-'radio is a passive medium.' To which Anish vehemently argued-'it is a crap.'
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From Banking to Banyan Tree. For a radio content company, Banyan Tree is a strange name. What is the inspiration? |
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Well, The Banyan Tree in Indian tradition is the centre of local activity and information. Schools and village meetings are still conducted under the shade of its branches, and its spreading roots symbolise an ever-expanding embrace of the community. As a company, we recreate this sense of community amongst Indians worldwide! 
Established in 1997, Banyan Tree Communications is the largest independent producer of radio programming in India. We produce almost 1000 hours of original content every month in a range that includes music, entertainment, news, chat and current affairs shows. And we market this content across a number of broadcast media, including terrestrial, cable, satellite and Internet radio.
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And how has been the going? |
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Unfortunately, private radio has taken a long time. We expected a far more active environment. In the interim, we have done programming for AIR, Satellite radio channels, Airlines and several other niches. We are glad that finally the airwaves are free! |
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But isn't radio a low cost-low return medium? How lucrative is it? |
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Yes, Radio is a cheap medium whether for advertising or programming. To create half hour TV soap, the costing begins at Rs 3 to 4 lacs but for a radio play the costing could be as low as rupees twenty thousand!
So as a corporate growth strategy, we have grown by adding volume. As I told you earlier, we also do programming for hotels, retail outlets and airlines. |
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Ok. To understand the content dynamics in radio space, what is the agreement with music companies? Is it pay-per-song? |
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Yes it is. When we use a music piece, we have to pay two kinds of fees- one to Record Labels for using the their music and two, to the artistes or singers as royalty. |
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We heard some controversy over these bodies hiking the prices? |
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The record industry feels that they have lost enough monies over the years on Daler Mehndi, Alisha and other and have now decided to make money by hitting at the very industry that will help them recover some!
So while they asked All India Radio Rs. 150 per hour as royalty, they turned around to private stations and asked for Rs. 1,500 and satellite stations like World space Rs 3000. Numbers pulled out of the hat!
They though lets make money this way since we are incapable of generating enough tape and CD sales. |
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Ok. But how does the glut of free music on private music stations impact the sales of music labels? Does it suppress it? |
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Most certainly, the private radio stations help sell more music on tapes or CDs. Fortunately, some labels like Sony or Virgin realize that there might be a short-term dip but after listening a promo or a song, the guys may get convinced to buy the CD.
But, unfortunately a lot of music labels in India feels that with private stations they can make a quick buck. This is really thoughtless. Hopefully they'll realize that stations are partners in sales and not adversaries. |
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Moving on to media characteristic, it is often cited that radio is a passive medium and it is television that is intrusive. Do you subscribe to this theory? |
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Absolutely not. Radio is very much an active medium. It is television that is passive. Viewers watch television with little interaction. They hardly pickup the phone to call or SMS.
On radio, this interactivity is a way of life; 'Call up for a dedication' or 'Voice your opinion' are popular radio programming formats.
So, when people say that radio is passive medium because you listen in background, I think it is a complete crap. |
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As per early research numbers from Nielsen-ORG Marg radio research, there seem to be two 'prime times' on radio. One is the morning drive-time peak and the other is the evening peak. Given that you host a popular breakfast show on GO 92.5 FM, in Mumbai, is the audience composition in these time bands significantly different? |
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Well, frankly, we are all grouping in the dark. In India, at this point in time, no one has a clue. But if you were to ask me about the international experience, numbers out of UK and US surely suggest that Breakfast radio is extremely popular.
At the other level, the listenership patterns in these are two day-parts, are very different. The morning day-part listenership is fairly consistent day after day. That's because Mumbaities have a very consistent morning behavior. But evening is another story. The listenership is likely to be in flux. A quick qualification is that I know this is true for Mumbai. I don't really know enough about the other centers. |
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On programming strategy, all five stations in Mumbai are 'hit music stations' playing same songs over and over again. Is this the way things will be! Will programming move on to different genres? |
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Good question and we don't have an answer yet. We are at pilot stage of development of soaps and plays for various stations. Will that be a differentiator? We hope so and so does the station.
But at the end of the day, unless you have a very large number of stations, say 100, there won't be much of differentiation. We aren't getting a Jazz station soon!
So at this point, I believe, it is the way you fill the silence between the music that matter. What a station will put out between a VIVA and a Britney Spears, those 30 seconds, the RJ talk, will matter. |
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Are stations clearly targeting a well-defined audience? Also, in your view, can a radio station cater to different audiences at different day-parts, by changing the programming? |
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To be honest, most radio stations are not very discriminating. Most meeting that I walk into, across the country, I find station head talking 'my audience is people between 18-45 years.' I think there are at least 3 audiences that are clubbed together!
To answer the other part of your question, can a single station have a morning drive time programming, aimed at executive, and then turn towards housewives in afternoon; I don't think that is possible. Being different things to different people at different day-parts is perhaps not possible on Radio. What happens if my drive time listener tunes in afternoon when he is driving for a meeting? A cookery show will turn him off!
So, a station should know its audience and keep them glued from morning to evening. |
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So, the identity of a station is very important... |
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Yes. People identify and tune in to a station and not the show. They tune in to GO 92.5 every morning, not to hear Anish Trivedi on the Breakfast Show, but to hear GO 92.5. |
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That being modest, Anish! They tune in for both.... |
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Perhaps. I hope so! |
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Ok. To conclude this chat, tell us, how has been your experience of moving out of banking to full time radio professional? |
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Well, banking was long time ago…. Radio was always a hobby. I went on air in India some nine years ago. I keep joking about the fact that it has been 22 years since I did my first radio show. That makes Ameen Sayani and myself the oldest radio professionals in the country!
Thankfully, my hobby became my profession. I got lucky. |
Send
your comments to Anish Trivedi
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FM radio has become more interactive now. Earlier, there were a lot of recorded programmes with a certain concepts like the ‘Cibaca Geetmala’… However, now radio has become more of a companion, and with the launch of mobile phones with FM feature, people are beginning to use it as a personal medium. Radio has become a platform for listeners to become involved through increased interactivity; today programming is all about capturing the city vibe.
Neerja Dhillon,
Station Director Mumbai, Big FM
Jul 03, 09
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Radio has become infotainment now. With competition and so many different contests happening, the winner may just get complete dowry at one go. You can vent your feelings on radio, laugh, listen to music, talk and drive .Radio is cheap and you can carry it anywhere. It is one on one and means different things for different people. Nowadays, jocks want to get into production and TV and work out of prime cities.
Malishka,
RJ, RED FM
Mar 16, 09
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In the early days of radio, it was seen as a medium for dissemination of information, and there was always a community which wanted to propagate radio as part of the media plan. Today, things have changed. Radio is part of majority of the clients. The way they look at radio is also different. However, I feel it is still a challenge for many to understand how to use radio effectively.
Jayyant Bhokare,
COO, Radio Indigo 91.9 FM
Feb 04, 09
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When there are too many players in the market, consolidation is bound to happen in order to sustain. The same was true for the not so long ago airlines boom in our country. You can expect consolidation in the Chennai FM market, too, and that will happen very soon.
PB Ramaswamy,
Cluster Director, Big FM Chennai
Sep 02, 08
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Today, it is not possible for a radio station to survive if it is producing niche content. We did start it in Bangalore, but it did not work. Within six months of operations, we migrated to ‘only Kannada’ format. Everybody followed us after that. In Chennai, from the very beginning the brand positioning of Mirchi has been as a complete Tamil channel and that has worked wonders for us.
Sandeep Sud,
VP & Cluster Head, Radio Mirchi Chennai
Jul 16, 08
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Listeners are not annoying, but they are persistent. ‘Patience’ is the mantra. As a radio jockey one has to keep in mind the fact that a listener is not aware of the fact that we receive dozens of calls every single minute. He or she calls because they feel so close to the jock and want to speak their hearts out. Can’t break the listener’s heart just because we are running out of patience.
Pallavi,
Radio Jockey, Radio Mirchi
Mar 05, 08
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“Everybody seems to be talking from the advertisers’ point of view. But it should be looked at from the consumers’ point of view. People need to be comfortable with a particular station… We are still not seeing big retailers coming to advertise on radio. I don’t think this category has grown. I think this industry needs to be made more relevant to people.”
S Keerthivasan,
Business Head, HT Music & Entertainment Co. Ltd
Dec 06, 07
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Till recently, people never took radio as a medium of communication seriously. Print and electronic mediums have always dominated the scene. But the scenario is changing and people are now waking up to the importance of radio. The medium has unparalleled reach and its complete potential is still to be tapped. The radio industry is on the rise, and things are looking bright for the industry.
Harrish M Bhatia,
Business Head, 94.3 My FM,Synergy Media Entertainment Ltd
Oct 25, 07
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“I don’t want a balance. I want more talk, less music. It’s as simple as that. And why should I have fewer ads that anyone else? This is business. It’s got nothing to do with being different. The more the ads, the merrier!”
Anil Srivatsa,
Chief Operating Officer, Radio Today Broadcasting Ltd.
Aug 20, 07
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"We have a proper in-depth research that we keep doing on this to keep music fresh. Other channels call themselves 'Adult hit contemporary channels', while we call ourselves an 'AC' channel, which is an Adult Contemporary channel. What we mean by that is that we keep playing music that can connect with the first generation and it necessarily need not be the latest hits. You will realise over time that we don't play so many hit songs. We do not chase hits like a new breaking song or something like that, which again is a big differentiator, and you will see our songs cutting across generations."
Rana Barua,
National Head - Marketing, Radio City
Jul 10, 07
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“A subscription-based revenue model is clearly a sustainable and phenomenal revenue model. Firstly, it does not have seasonality. Secondly, it’s a cash-and-carry model, where the consumer pays upfront in advance. And finally, you are able to deliver a proposition which is very sharp… We don’t have an advertising model at all. That’s clearly our USP.”
Harshad Jain,
Chief Marketing Officer, WorldSpace India
May 05, 07
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Every medium of entertainment relies on its content to get attract its target audience. Our differentiators such as music, RJs, utilities, etc. will help us achieve a substantial stand in the market. It is important to give listeners fresh and innovative content that they can relate to. Our content is very local and has been designed keeping consumer tastes and preferences in mind.
Manav Dhanda,
National Head, Programming, Big 92.7 FM
Jan 16, 07
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“Radio stations can cater to different audiences at different parts of the day by changing the programming. Also, what I can see that’s going to happen now is a lot of pushing and pulling. The passionate broadcasters would always be popular, they will always choose the radio jockeys that people like listening to. So, it’s always going to be the same band, the same music, the same words, but all those gimmicks will have to be supported by content. So, content will always be the big game.”
Shamshir Rai Luthra,
President, Talk Rich Friendships
May 01, 06
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Radio is the only medium that has a one-on-one relationship with listeners. Unlike watching movies or TV where we generally sit with friends and family, radio is something that we listen to and connect with music individually. Radio City is about music and songs that put you in a positive state of mind and we have mapped out songs in a particular way that will be played at different and suitable times during the day. This is the key thought behind our new campaign and brand identity.
Vikas Varma,
National Head of Programming, Radio City
Apr 03, 06
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“FM is a local medium and it has to have a local flavor. It’s really not a good thing for the largest networks to go in for similar content across the country. It may sound like a cheaper option in the short run, but if you don’t address local issues in the local idiom, you can’t engage your listeners and you’ll lose their loyalty. You will end up with bland, mass-market cookie cutter programming, which turns people off FM altogether.”
Nisha Narayanan,
Media Consultant, Radio & TV
Jan 25, 06
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Private FM radio is a three-year old medium, and with more than 330 licences being issued in 90 cities, FM as a medium will gain more acceptability and popularity. Consumers will get more entertainment choice, while advertisers will get an additional vehicle to reach their consumers. For existing players, the need to differentiate and stay ahead of the competition will be of utmost importance when the market opens up.
Shariq Patel,
Station Head, GO 92.5 FM
Dec 15, 05
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Our vision is to create a world of entertainment and information in crystal clear sound. When you tune in to WorldSpace, there would never be an instance when you are listening to soothing melodies from Kishore Kumar and suddenly Britney Spears follows. Globally, satellite radio has worked very well. We have two companies from the US – XM Radio and Sirius – with whom we have tie-ups. Between these two players today, there are over six million subscribers. The international digital satellite multimedia has been globalised and is available to you now.
Deepak Varma,
Managing Director, WorldSpace
Nov 11, 05
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“Radio can get in your car, in your bathroom… Radio can deliver messages in such close proximity to purchase that a consumer could just go out and buy a product. Television can’t get that close, television has a different relationship with the consumers. Radio is seen as much more personal, intimate and there are enormous greater possibilities in the fact that radio is ambiguous.”
Joanna McCrostie,
Group Head, Commercial Production, GCap Media Plc
Aug 26, 05
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“Radio City today has managed to not only revive, but also revolutionise radio-listening habits. Radio City is India’s first private FM Channel to go on air. The genre of game shows has been pioneered by Radio City with the famous Radio City 91FM Suno Aurr Lakhpati Bano, which generated overwhelming response with over 1.23 crore calls in just five weeks.”
Ambar Basu,
VP Finance, Radio City
Jul 21, 05
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“The way the radio industry has grown in India is phenomenal. The amount of listeners that the radio industry has got is tremendous. We never expected that private radio FM in India would be so popular. The technique that we use is far superior than what is used in foreign radio stations.”
Jaideep Banerjee,
Programming Head, Radio City 91 FM, Delhi
Jun 27, 05
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“I don’t think you need to be an actor on air. You need to be real. You need to be yourself. That’s why radio is called an intimate medium.”
Chaitanya Hegde,
Programme Director, Radio Sparsha and Radio Jhankaar,WorldSpace Satellite Radio
May 24, 05
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With three or four stations and 10 million plus listeners, of course we all sound the same. But with 20 stations, we would be forced to selectively target and that means an English station, a classical station, a talk station, a dance music remix station, a retro station and so on… But the licence fee issue is a brick wall that robs the sector of any chance to show the prolific growth it is capable of.
Vehrnon Ibrahim,
National Programming Head, Red FM
Apr 13, 05
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I think if the music is good, you could surely get a ghazal enthusiast to fancy a mainstream Bollywood hit, or vice versa. Coming to WorldSpace, it gives audience the luxury of choice. Among the Indian channels, Farishta is dedicated to Hindi classics and Jhankaar to current hit music (both film as well as Indipop) – which make easier for a listener to choose the kind of music at any given time.
Seetal Iyer,
Programme Director, WorldSpace Satellite Radio
Feb 09, 05
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Internet and radio go very well together, like if you have a large number of small stations, the Internet can be an excellent way to combine these small stations into effectively larger stations. You could be simultaneously streaming content from any one location to other. You could also exchange content offline with stations around the world. You could interview people via the Internet. Audio chat can be used as a means to make the Internet a virtual recording studio for a radio station. The opportunities are tremendous.
Arun Mehta,
Chief Technical Officer, Net Radiophony India Private Limited
Jan 18, 05
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“How is a radio station supposed to pay the overwhelming license fee if its collections don’t add up to the dues? The political leaders are too busy making money for themselves, even if it means killing a medium as effective as this one. As a result, you don’t have any new stations coming up, and those that exist are on the verge of closing shop. Stations are also averse to experimenting with new formats because they feel completely bogged down by the financial constraints.”
Roshan Abbas,
Radio Jockey & MD,, Encompass Productions
Dec 27, 04
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“It is the ‘connect’ with the people that carries you. You may have the best voice in town but wouldn’t know how to reach out to people. If you really tell people that listen, you are not a super being and there are times when even you can have a bad cold or something stuck on your throat. On some days when you cough, you tell people ‘galle me kuchch attak gaya’ or fumble five times and say, ‘Anu, tujhe kya ho gaya?’ and people understand. What really matters is to be true and real to your listeners.”
Anurita Gupta,
RJ, Radio Mirchi
Dec 08, 04
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“Unfortunately, programming is something that you can’t quantify. We undoubtedly have the best minds of the country working for us and we have put in a huge amount of time and resources in training them. Training them involves getting some of the best people across the world and sending them abroad so that they can spend large amount of time with other large networks and benchmark themselves against the best.”
Tapas Sen,
Senior VP (Programming), Radio Mirchi
Nov 20, 04
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“The success of a radio jockey depends on the kind of popularity he can generate by inspiring people to pick up the phone and say hello. And, people would talk to you only when you actually reach out to them. That way, I believe, the must-do for a radio jockey is to maintain a down-to-earth attitude so that listeners can comfortably make calls and speak their hearts out. I think this is the most important asset for a good radio jockey.”
Sanjeeb Mukherjea,
Radio Jockey, Red FM
Nov 01, 04
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“People have adopted FM in a fairly large way, and to that extent radio is quite clearly in people’s mind. So what we are saying is: You have in a way gone through radio, it’s time for you to evolve and upgrade yourself to satellite radio.”
Sanjay Ramakrishnan,
Head, Consumer Audio Business – India, WorldSpace
Jul 17, 04
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"The radio industry needs to completely open up, more players should join in and radio stations in the new cities should become operational."
Sumantra Dutta,
COO, Radio City
May 20, 04
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“We pride ourselves on being a people oriented station, not a star oriented one."
Malishka,
RJ, Win 94.6
Apr 17, 04
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“I’ve always believed in healthy competition and a monopoly always kills… So, it’s good to have competition! There is always room for more and, more the merrier… And, better is the quality.”
Usha Uthup,
RJ, RED FM
Apr 10, 04
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“Aamar 106.2 FM is positioned as Kolkata's best music station. It serves the best music mix for its targeted demography. The USP is definitely the best music mix where the listener gets consistent good music of his/her taste.”
Sanjay Ahmed,
Programme Director, Aamar Radio 106.2 FM
Mar 25, 04
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“Radio commercials are the result of a lot of thought and effort. That’s why creative work on radio deserves recognition.”
Gautam Gulati,
National Marketing Head, Radio Mirchi
Mar 03, 04
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“We are expecting a listenership of more than 100 minutes in Kolkata.”
Romen Sood,
Station Director, Radio Mirchi ,Kolkata
Jan 31, 04
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"If you are a public monkey, you are bound to be spanked. No two ways about it."
Jaggu & Tarana,
RJ’s, Go 92.5
Jan 14, 04
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"Tapping into people’s emotions, that’s the mantra behind Mirchi’s programming."
Sameer Soni,
Station Director, Radio Mirchi 98.3 FM
Dec 31, 03
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"RED is a mass-based station, and each station has its own feel and differentiation based on local content, presentation and play list, drawn from regular research in these regions.”
Jimmy Tangree,
Station Head (Kolkata), RED FM
Dec 16, 03
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“A Radio Jockey is a mouthpiece of the station; he has to take the burden of representing the right as well as the dark side of the station.”
Ameen Sayani,
Anchor, RED FM
Dec 08, 03
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“We encourage innovation but not on the lines of the Morepen deal. That is not our station call; in such a case, the clients may dictate the programming content, which is not acceptable.”
Neelu Sawhny,
General Manager, Ad Sales Radio Today (RED FM)
Nov 26, 03
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Our major product differentiation is that the flavor of the station remains constant; we maintain a consistency in music mood and tone with our set target group. This is an important factor for establishing and retaining a loyal listenership base as well as attracting new listeners
Partho Majumdar,
Station & Programming Director, Power 107.8 FM
Nov 12, 03
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Advertising on the radio has definitely increased. Research shows a figure of 50 lakh listeners. It’s not something planners can ignore. Moreover, due to stations operational in different cities, an advertiser reaches cross cities. So an increase in the budget looks justified.
Shariq Patel,
Station Head, Go 92.5.
Nov 03, 03
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Radio builds brands just as well as TV or posters. Like all other media, on radio also you just need the right commercials for them to have the right impact
Steve England,
, S2Blue
Oct 06, 03
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"The private FM stations stick to the tried and tested, and end up sounding alike."
YURI,
Popular R J,
Sep 03, 03
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"Broadcasting will mature only if we all think about empathizing with the audience."
Shamshir Luthra,
Popular Radio Jockey,
Aug 20, 03
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"All radio commercials sound the same. They have to be more creative. They can be done in something that sounds like a mother’s voice, a kid’s voice or a romantic tone; various things can be done. We should include the aspect of drama in radio. Only then will commercials be effective."
Sunil Kumar,
Managing Director and CEO, Big River Radio India Private Limited
Aug 07, 03
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"I find a huge gap between what the radio research report says and the ground realities experienced by us. So I would take these research reports with much more than a pinch of salt. Frankly, I haven’t yet started believing in radio research studies."
CVL Srinivas,
Chief Operating Officer, North & South,Madison Communications
Jul 17, 03
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“I guess that all the private radio FM stations in Delhi have had a decent run so far on the revenue side. The retail sector has been relatively slower in their adoption of the medium, but we expected that.”
Nandan Srinath,
Station Head, Radio Mirchi,Delhi
Jul 03, 03
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“We need new formats for the listeners in terms of news, sports, talk, genres of music etc. Right now we’re just focusing on general entertainment.”
Nishchint Chawla,
COO, Red FM
May 22, 03
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“There is no other country in the world where radio license costs anything what it costs here. Be it on an absolute basis or on a per person basis or on a percentage of revenue.”
John N Catlett,
CEO, Radio City
Apr 30, 03
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“We are expecting a listenership of more than 100 minutes in Kolkata.”
Romen Sood,
Station Manager, Radio Mirchi, Kolkata
Apr 16, 03
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"There is some sort of VJ style, type casting of radio presenters that is already happening which is not good as it could lead to monotony."
Rajesh Tahil,
Station Director, Go 92.5
Mar 22, 03
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“All I say is that you need to play Radio for the long term. This isn't Radio. As you know in the current regime, Radio stations here have to pay huge license fees. From an outsider’s point of view, they don’t have much relationship with potential income. Certainly not in the short term with the kind of Radio market size we have got here. So something has to give. Either these radio stations go out business or just continue to loose huge amount of money or the regulations that surround them change.”
SAM MILLER,
Managing Editor, South Asia, BBC World Service
Mar 07, 03
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"The battle for listenership shares is increasing by the day. It’s becoming more of a struggle for existence for a struggle for existence. However, Mirchi has been fortunate to some extent – as it had a lead in terms of Mumbai launch – the most important market for FM players."
Prashant Panday,
COO, Radio Mirchi
Feb 05, 03
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"Radio, being a free mass media, should be allowed to carry News. Without it, a station is denied its true role as an active community participant."
Sumantra Dutta,
COO, Radio City
Dec 11, 02
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"TV does not provide you city specific reach- so it has far higher wastage than radio."
Farid Kureshi,
National Sales Director, Radio Mirchi
Nov 23, 02
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"The sad truth is agencies today have lost the edge to use gut feel and stick to numbers which in a creative business can be a contradiction in terms."
Vehrnon Ibrahim,
Executive Producer & National Programming Head, 93.5 RED FM, Radio Today
Nov 13, 02
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"We cannot hold on to such high listenership figures for long. We'll be happy with a 35% share of listenership."
AP Parigi,
CEO, Radio Mirchi
Sep 24, 02
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"Radio is a sleeping giant"
Praveen Tripathi,
Chairperson, Technical Committee - Radio Audience Measurement service by AC Nielsen ORG Marg
Jul 13, 02
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"Our current programming strategy is 'more dhak dhak and less bak bak'!"
Gautam Radia,
CEO, WIN 94.6
Jun 26, 02
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